Interview: Sean Fine & Andrea Nix Fine

Husband and wife team Andrea Nix and Sean Fine’s new documentary, War/Dance, is powerful for what it doesn’t show. The film is not an expose on the atrocious human-rights violations that continue to plague northern Uganda; rather it’s about finding a ray of hope amidst brutal chaos. Uganda, as depicted in the film, is a strikingly beautiful country ripped apart by violence.

Following three young students from a refugee camp in Patongo to Uganda’s national music and dance competition, the film explores these children’s hearts, hopes and dreams. Instead of inserting archival footage or attempting to capture the violence first-hand, the camera stays focused on faces as the children reveal their horrific stories. Filled with bright sunsets, colorful dance routines and an irrepressible spirit, War/Dance proves there’s hope to be found in the most devastating situations and that hope lies in the future of Uganda: the children. I sat down with the duo in New York.

Benjamin Crossley-Marra: Had you been to Uganda prior to filming this?
Andrea Nix: No, we’d both been to different parts of Africa before, but we’d never been to Uganda. So it was a first time.

BCM: How long did it take to shoot?                             
AN: Twelve weeks total, although that’s combined from two different shooting periods.

BCM: Was there a lot of apprehension whilst shooting?
Sean Fine: Yeah there was a ton of apprehension. When we were first approached to do a film about the situation in Northern Uganda there was a lot of precautionary talks about the security measures we would take to ensure a safe shoot. Andrea and I met while doing work for National Geographic so we’re used to shooting in volatile situations. I’ve been in a lot of war zones before, but this war zone in particularly dangerous due to its unpredictable nature. There are kids anywhere from 9 to 16 waiting to ambush your vehicle with machetes or AK-47s and there’s no reason behind what they do, it’s what they’ve been ordered to do. If they catch you, there will be no prisoners or negotiations, they’ll kill you, then they move up the ranks of their child-soldier militia. So it was very dangerous, we talked a lot about it, our son was one at the time we started filming and this was the first time we made a conscience decision to split up. So I went to Northern Uganda and Andrea stayed home, although we were in constant communication nearly every day.

BCM: Where did you stay in Uganda?
SF: Right in the internally displaced camp with the film’s subjects. I would talk to Andrea on top of a brick wall next to a local brothel, which was the only place that had any cell phone reception and we’d talk at 3am about the footage I’d shot. I was really concerned with trying to keep everything safe and healthy although I did contract Malaria. But through the emotional and physically draining shoot, it was so helpful to upload the footage to Andrea and hear her opinions on the material. She could really step back and see the big picture and this collaboration was hugely important to the film. It wouldn’t be a film without her.

AN: Yeah because structurally it’s the most challenging film we’ve ever taken on. If you think about all the factors in the film: the children, the war, the music competition, it’s a lot of elements that we had to make come together. Also, we’re telling a story so we want people to feel the children’s highs and lows we didn’t want to just make a factual film. We didn’t want War Dance to be like other films shot about Africa or Uganda, so we talked a lot about how to tell this story in an innovative fashion.

SF: Speaking on the specifics: Uganda is separated into two countries (as far as I can tell), the northern side is a war zone and the southern part is very peaceful. So when we got to Kampala we had to meet with the military and explain to them, over a series of days, exactly what we were doing. We got permission to film, but still had to adhere to restrictions. We could not leave the camp and we couldn’t be out between 5pm and 9am, which for a filmmaker is awful, even worse for a cinematographer. So we got to know the local military very well over late night games of Uno. Once they got to be familiar with the project, they allowed us more latitude.

BCM: Were there any incidents while filming?
SF: Sometimes it got hairy, we’d be filming and then someone would come up to us and announce that the rebel army had just crossed over and took three children. We had another instance when I was just getting full-blown Malaria and didn’t know what was going on with my body, and we we’re out late without permission and all of the sudden, the jeep got surrounded. The men began to put their RPGs through the windows, which doesn’t make sense because had they fired, it would’ve killed them too, but they started screaming at us and telling us to get out of the jeep. Luckily, it turned out to be a branch of the local military, but they didn’t know who we were or why we were allowed out, it took about two hours but eventually everything calmed down. It’s a nerve-wracking, unpredictable experience and we later found out that these people weren’t even trained by the military, they were just given guns.

BCM: In a situation like this how do you know when people are telling you the truth?
SF: That’s a good question and we started off interviewing many hundreds of kids from two different schools. Because we’ve been in film for so long, we kind of know the right questions to ask. I’d say 75% of our time is consumed with literal verification, while 25% is gut instinct. I think I can generally tell after all these years when I’m being put on. But of course we’re dealing with kids who are honest in most respects, but still have imaginations that can run wild. We relied a lot on the translators and head-masters, who had been child soldiers themselves. They provided invaluable council. Also, we stretched the interview out over a series of days and had them answer similar questions multiple times. 

BCM: What moment was the most intense?
SF: I don’t know if I’d characterize it as intense, but when Dominic tells that horrific story of when he killed those farmers and then declares he’s never told anyone that before, not even his mother, it was very dramatic. He has a very close relationship with his mom, so when I heard that, I stopped for a moment and asked him if he really knew what he was saying. I told him that his mother would see this and that I wanted most of Uganda to see this, and was he sure he wanted to tell us this story?  But he was insistent, he told us that he thought it was the most honorable way to tell his story and the biggest way he could help. We had many talks about whether or not this should be in the final film, but he really wanted it in there, so we obliged.

AN: Anytime we’re sharing something private it’s an issue of ethics. The other big scene we had to talk a lot about was when Nancy went to visit her father’s grave and breaks down in an emotional fit. When Sean called me he sounded pretty rattled and told me that he thought what he filmed was intrusive, evasive and didn’t know whether or not it should be in the final cut. But after talking about the big picture, we decided to leave it in. Nancy and her mother knew we were filming so it’s not like we were taking something private they weren’t aware of. Secondly, in terms of the film, some people felt it was painful but it explores the notion that no culture ever gets used to losing family. These kids are total survivors and unless you see that grief, you may not understand the depths of their despair. We cut that scene really short; it went on for over two hours. We want the audience to walk away with a total understanding of these kids individuality.

SF: Another thing about Nancy’s scene, that sometimes gets forgotten, is that we see the mother’s reaction and it’s the first time we get to see a parent’s reaction. As parents, Andrea and I have an instinct to protect children. Here we see Nancy’s mother try and comfort her and at the same time deal with her own grief. People may forget but she took the remains of her husband and created that grave herself. I hope the audience can see the full dynamic of that scene.

BCM: You made a conscience effort not to show the violence first-hand. Can you talk about that choice?

AN: We feel that those films have been made and the message we really wanted to get across was the personal experience. We wanted to show what these kids are actually thinking and feeling about life, not what it felt like to kill somebody. Sure those were peak moments of horror in their lives, but we wanted to also show how they lived day-to-day. They’re complex individuals that the media generally simplifies and they see themselves as wanting a better life. They have feelings about the government; they have feelings about music and about being kids. There’s so much going on in their lives and that’s the way we felt the audience would most relate. We wanted the message to be that these kids are more than just the violence that’s happened to them. Of course we wanted to share their stories as well, but in a way, that was going to be the least agonizing part for them. Usually when you tell back story there’s gimmicks like recreations or going back to where the event took place. We didn’t want the kids to go through that, but we still wanted to make it emotional.

SF: We wanted to place the audience in the kid’s minds. Let’s face it: as Americans we’re pretty desensitized to screen violence, both real and fake. I didn’t want them to recreate what happened literally, but loved that they remembered things like sounds, smells and heat. It’s interesting because we had the opportunity to show some of the violence. We were presented pictures of the massacre of Rose’s family and they’re some of the most horrible pictures I’ve ever seen. But it wouldn’t have affected people the way we wanted to.   

BCM: Can you tell us more about the child-soldier who helped you translate?
SF: His name is Jimmy and we found him through the Human Rights Watch who recommended him highly. I called him and we immediately started a relationship. He was instrumental in the film.

AN: He got very involved with the cause and is still with the kids. He goes back and forth between New York and Uganda. Sean left his cell phone there so, if the kids can get it charged, at three AM we’ll get a call from this ridiculously large numbe,r which immediately hangs up, then we call back. We’ve started a scholarship fund for the kids which Jimmy helps distribute.

TH!NKFilm releases War/Dance in theaters on November 9th.