Interview: Chen Kaige

“The film you ‘plan’ on making is not the one which you end up shooting – the film will unfold as it will. Perhaps fate whispers stories to us in our dreams, in our subconscious, and we are compelled to tell them. And yet we do have an opportunity to shape them, to embellish them, to make them are own.” – Chen Kaige, director of The Promise

I’ve never heard any filmmaker say that making a film is easy. Sometimes things may go more smoothly than other times – this is a fact of life as well as art. But the odds are in favor that every film you will ever see in your life is the result of an almost incomprehensible amount of hard work, stress, energy and optimism at the hands of the filmmakers. I’ve heard some say that luck plays a big part in it too. I’ve heard others say that innate talent is somewhere in the equation.

A film, in my opinion, is the ultimate work of art, a visual, auditory and psychological assault on the senses and emotions of the audience. A film is a combination of nearly every other artistic process invented – writing, photography, make-up, music, performance, painting, choreography, and a slew of others. It would be easier to sit down and think of what it doesn’t take to make a film – you’d probably end up with a shorter list. And if a film is the ultimate work of art, then filmmakers are the ultimate artists.

You could look at the life and career of a filmmaker in terms of the three age-old conflicts: Man against God, Man against Society, and Man against Himself. Becoming a filmmaker is no easy task, in fact, I’d gamble that it is nearly impossible. Not everyone can become a filmmaker. And if you want to be a filmmaker, and you decide to become a filmmaker, you are taking on the whole world, creating from nothing the ultimate work of art. This is the first great conflict, defying the impossible odds and actually becoming a legitimate filmmaker. And what makes a filmmaker legitimate? Let’s be honest: having your film shown in a theater, in front of an audience. If you reach this point, you reach your second great conflict: Now that you are making films, your films must compete with the thousands of other films made over the past hundred plus years and all the films being planned, shot, and edited at this moment, you must compete with ever other filmmaker of the past and the present, and also, the future. Remember, it takes just as much work to make a bad film that it does a good film. What will make your work stand out? What will make it unique? What will make it stand the test of time? What will make it good? The second great challenge: becoming a great filmmaker.

The third challenge is perhaps the hardest. If you have achieved greatness, where do you after that? The third challenge is the filmmaker challenging his or herself. Chen Kaige is a director at the point in his career where he is faced with this third conflict, challenging himself and his ability, his creativity, his inventiveness. Kaige has directed more than ten films since he debuted with Yellow Earth in 1984. His films have received international critical recognition, achieved worldwide box-office success, and won many awards, including the Palme D’Or for his 1993 Farewell My Concubine. He is considered one of the first filmmakers to emerge from Fifth Generation Directors, the first group of film students to enroll in the Beijing Film Academy after the end of a long period of artistic and intellectual suppression in China in the 60s and 70s. The social and cultural history of China are major reoccurring themes in Kaige’s work. Yellow Earth is considered to be the film that launched an era of socially aware European-influenced films in China. And now, with his most recent film, The Promise, Kaige applies his gifted directorial vision to the martial arts fantasy genre, and has created an ambitious epic filled with magic, culture, romance, mayhem and drama. Kaige’s knack for historical drama in previous films translates perfectly into the mythology and imagined history of The Promise.

The most expensive film in the history of China’s film industry with a budget of $35 million dollars. It was also the highest grossing film in China in 2005, a figure that can probably be attributed to the fact that above all this film is entertaining and exciting, and boasts am eclectic cast of international film stars. Hiroyuki Sanada (The Last Samurai, The White Countess, Ringu) is Japanese. Jang Dong-Gun is a Korean model/TV Star/singer/film actor. Cecilia Cheung (Stephen Chow’s The King of Comedy) is a Hong-Kong native who was educated in Australia. In addition to having acted in films for over eight years, Nicholas Tse (New Police Story, My Schoolmate, the Barbarian) grew up in the U.S. and Canada and, in addition to being an award winning film actor, is a platinum-selling recording artist who has played to sold-out crowds all over Asia.

The film opens with a young girl scavenging for food among the corpses of fallen soldiers. Confronted by a young boy of the royal class, she flees the battlefield in search of her mother, clutching a bloodstained piece of bread. It is then that she meets the beautiful but duplicitous goddess Manshen, who offers her a life of wealth and royalty, but not without a sacrifice: should the girl accept, any man she loves, she is doomed to lose. Her acceptance of the offer sets in motion a story filled with epic battles, magical assassins, love affairs, power-hungry dukes, a crimson armor clad general in somewhat of a mid-life crisis, a slave who can run at superhuman speed, and images composed of color so vivid you’ll swear oil-paint was applied directly onto celluloid.

I was fortunate to sit at a roundtable discussion with Chen Kaige while he was in New York City promoting The Promise.

Question: All your work seems to deal with the history of China, why put that into a martial arts fantasy film?
Chen Kaige: Well, you know, you look at the Chinese movies made over the last two decades that are all drama stuff, and I personally believe a time comes to do something different. So that’s why. I think that when you try and do different stuff there are always risks, and I prefer to take the risk and do something differently. But I don’t think this movie has anything to do with the history of China. You can say that it has to do with the cultural history of China, that’s fine. I started, certainly, inspired by stories in the past, particularly one about a young man who can run very fast, like the wind, who has a very strong belief that one day he can catch the sun, but the story ends with his death, he dies he is so thirsty. But I think that it’s beautiful, though it sounds sort of naïve – how a human being could manage to catch something like a sun. But that shows the idea of a newborn civilization, because the story is already two, three thousands years old, something like that. I put that into this film, to help build up the character of Kunlun, the Slave part, because he was the one I really admired. He’s not free like a human, but compared with others, he is more human in many ways.

Q: Was this your first time working with computer generated effects?
CK: Well, I mean I must confess that I was too ambitious to do a film with so many visual effects at one time. I was pretty much, and I repeat this, I was like a pregnant woman anxiously waiting to see what my baby would look like at the end [laughs], something like that. And I was repeatedly told that I should be patient. I think one of the reasons I wanted to use a lot of the computer generated stuff was that I couldn’t find a real location that was as beautiful as existed in my imagination, so I decided to do the green screen shots. Particularly the scene in which the young girl talks to the goddess, the background is all sort of computer stuff, but it’s really beautiful. And next time, if I do a similar piece, I’m going to remember that, so I don’t get as worried. But it was a very interesting experience to work so closely with the cinematographer and the visual effects supervisors, who also stay on set with us everyday to make sure this is what we want. We were always having a very serious discussion, like what color we wanted to put there and why. I think the general idea was that everybody told me how beautiful the color is in this film, how strong the visual image is. I think that we designed to make a world fresh and beautiful, like the world was made last night, something like that. And also we hoped the audience could sit there like a baby the first time they opened their eyes and see what’s going on here, in this world. Beautiful but brutal.

Q: Do you see a difference in what a Chinese audience looks for in a film and what a western audience looks for? And how did you strike that balance in The Promise?
CK: I think the difference for the American audience is that they don’t know anything about Chinese culture, and they are not willing to know. That’s the reality. What will attract their attention is basically the beauty of the film, and also the martial arts. And something on the emotional level that could really attract their attention. But my audience could be different, because of course they know something about our own culture, and they may hope to see something much more than an American audience. I think that’s the major difference.

Q: Are there any differences in the version of the film that was released in China and the version that is being released in America, where there any cuts or any alterations made?
CK: The version that we’re going to show here, the American version, is eighteen minutes shorter than the Chinese version. I think that I appreciate it. I think that if I were a foreigner, if I was a westerner, I would understand this version better than the Chinese version. It’s simpler than the Chinese version. What we cut out was something about destiny. For example the General meets with the Goddess much earlier than what we see in this version, so the Goddess delivers a message to him by saying, ‘Your career is finished. You’re not going to win anymore.’ And of course the General doesn’t believe in it, he’s the one over-proud of himself and he believes he can do anything. So maybe that part can sort of help the beauty of the character of the General. But if we see the film from an entertainment point of view, this one is much more structured than the other version.

Q: What is the future of Chinese cinema, with you and many other Chinese directors having such a strong presence both in China and internationally, is there any room for newcomers?
CK: I think that I will stretch my arm to welcome the newcomers, the younger generation directors. I think this is a process – we started with small-budget films as well. So I am very confident that one day they will get a bigger budget to do the film they want. I believe they are doing what they want to do now. I think that I believe in them, that they can do things much greater and wider than what we did in the past. So I wish them very good luck for the future.

Q: What do you think is the importance of imagination in Chinese psyche, in terms of Chinese development, extension, history?
CK: This is a big question. I don’t know. As a filmmaker, you can not really lock up yourself with the life you live. You cannot really say, ‘Okay, this is it.’ And you need to use your imagination to make this kind of film possible, without this kind of imagination you cannot do this kind of film for sure. I don’t know, I mean, I think what happened today in China is the result of great imagination. How could you believe that in, I mean it took only twenty years to make the economy number three in rank, I mean that’s impossible.

Q: What was the experience like working together with actors and crews from different countries? Was there any difficulty with so many actors from different countries working together?
CK: Well it was no trouble at all, I must say, because everybody was pushing for each other. They’re all very professional actors, they knew what they were doing, and they respect me, not only as a director, but also sort of as a brother, that kind of thing. So we all worked very closely and they all did whatever they could. I’m reaching the time when people can be more, how can I put this… I think the time will come when people will more enjoy and appreciate other parts of the film. I’m waiting to see in the future maybe the possibility where we’ll work together on another project.

Q: How has the film been received in China and in other countries? How has it been received in Korea and Japan? Have Chinese audiences embraced these actors, do they feel that Chinese actors have lost roles to them?
CK: Well, sometimes you know it really depends what part they are playing. For example, Jang Dong-Gun received the warmest reception from the Chinese audience, because his character is more likable than others, so it’s nothing to do with the actor. I think that some people really like Hiroyuki Sanada’s part, because this part, this character is more complicated than others. He’s the one who doesn’t have a sense of love, but at the end of the day, he’s changed – he sacrifices his own life for love. So maybe people [pauses] – if you’re being conservative, you might say, I love that guy, because he’s very simple. But generally speaking, I think they did everything they could. I really appreciate, I was with Sanada a few days ago and we were talking about what kind of experience we had. And he has his own way to do the action, it’s almost unbelievable, like he’d stay on horseback for four or five hours without getting off because we were stupidly waiting for the wind. We thought it would make the whole thing more beautiful, if there was a little wind. I told him, ‘You can come down, and when the wind is coming, you can get on again.’ And he said ‘No, no, no it will be too late.’ So he just stayed on horseback forever. [laughs] I was very moved. Because you need that kind of respect if you are going to do something really good.

Q: How did you decide to cast Hiroyuki Sanada?
CK: Well I saw The Last Samurai and The Twilight Samurai, and I liked his performances very much, and I had also heard that he was trained as sort of a samurai when he was very young. He knew very well how to use the sword and the knife and how to fight. I went to Tokyo to meet with him, and he’s this very gentle, nice person, and I liked him a lot. There are many things we can talk about quite openly, we can discuss issues, and he’s the one who always asked questions and why I should do this. That’s what I can tell you.

Q: And what about Jang Dong-Gun? How did you find him and what made you cast him in the role of the Slave?
CK: Well he’s a very influential star in Korea, and he’s also very famous in all of Asia, including Japan and China. Everywhere he went in China he was very warmly welcomed by the Chinese audience. I started to think that he might be in this movie after I saw him in the film "Friends". Particularly in the scene in which he is killed. I was pretty much convinced he was the one to do the part. And I think my feelings were reconfirmed when I visited with him the first time. I was so impressed by his eyes, very innocent eyes, like a baby. So we had a long discussion about this part, and I was very lucky to have him onboard.

Q: What is your next project?
CK: Next is sort of [pauses] unpredictable [laughs]. I really don’t know. Quite honestly I think I’m still cooking. I have a huge stock, a huge brainstorm. I’m waiting, somebody or something will inspire me. I have some rough ideas in terms of what I can do, but I’m not entirely sure what I’ll do.

Q: The concept of this films starts out with a group of archetypes, The General, The Slave, The Princess, The Duke. What did you have to do to get these characters beyond being just archetypes?
CK: I can easily see sort of similar people in real life. Again, don’t get me wrong, I wasn’t trying to make a political allegory, that kind of thing. Although this is sort of a magical fantasy I hope that on an emotional level people can relate to it. In other words, they must be real. Look at the General character. He’s like a businessman, with his belief that he is going to win the battle every time, never thinking that he is going to lose, waving around everything in front of him, women, fame, victory – that’s the thing he’s looking for. And look at the Princess, making the wrong choice when she is very young, being cursed by her destiny, that kind of thing. The question is how many people would give a different answer to the Goddess, the choice between fortune and love. I guess that many people would give the same answer, that’s the situation of modern society. Those characters are sort of recognizable more or less. But they’re all changed by the end of the day. That would be horrible, if in you’re entire life you never ever tasted anything called love. That’s not worth your life. Well, what is love? Love is going to make change, if you want to do something good. I think that the slave character is more ideal than others. I had seen these kind of people when I was very young. I was in a providence living with many minority people. That’s their way to treat others. They always try to help. But they are very poor people. And you can knock on their door and just walk into their house and say ‘I need food.’ And they will serve you immediately. They don’t even ask who you are, why you are here. That is the beauty of life, if you are lucky enough to have those kind of people around you. And that makes you feel like you want to help. We used to be that way, but now, we are no longer the same. Yeah [laughs], it’s not just about fantasy, it’s about life.

Q: Your film was shown in film festivals all over the world, how do you feel about having it shown here, in New York?
CK: This is my second hometown. I used to live here. I was very happy to come back, but unfortunately I don’t even have the time to walk around in a city that I’m familiar with. I think it’s great that in three years time I’ve come here twice, with two different films. I’m going to the screening tonight, I will be there to do the introduction.

Q: A major theme in the film is destiny. Do you believe in destiny?
CK: I do. There is a reason, I guess, that we’re going to talk something about religion first, and I know that probably no one in this room really believes in any specific religions, but we have to believe one thing, we’re not, as human beings, we did not come from emptiness. There is always a reason for us, why we’re here. I don’t want to use a word like God or Creator that kind of thing, but what I do believe is that every individual came to this world with his personal secret code. That’s what destiny is. It’s been written. Destiny works in one way, and it gives you a hard time. Always. You feel like you have done so much, but you cannot achieve what you wanted. But also, destiny works in another way, which is to encourage you to fight, to change or improve your life. That’s how destiny works. And not because I’m Chinese, I think that everyone has a destiny. But make sure you are strong enough. Life is tough. We need to hear the voice from inside ourselves, to tell you ‘I’m ready. I’m ready to fight.’ That’s my understanding about destiny.

Q: So this film is the highest grossing film in China, and also did very well in the international market. What do you think is the key to success for Chinese cinema in an international market, especially with the globalization of Hollywood films?
CK: I need to say that Chinese cinema is very small, compared with the American cinema. We’re almost nothing. But I’m not convinced that we’re not going to make things bigger and better. We can do that. But it will take time. So lets say, I’m not so sure that my young boys want to be film directors, but if they do, then in thirty years time something will be different.

Warner Independent Pictures released The Promise on May 5th.