Interview: George Ratliff

Unlike most film directors George Ratliff is unpretentious, down-to-earth and a really nice guy, although you might not get that impression by the films he’s directed.  He helmed the intense documentary Hell House in 2001 and his first feature film, a psychological thriller, Joshua opens in limited release today. 

Joshua is set in Ratliff’s beloved New York and deals with a well-to-do Manhattan couple, played by Sam Rockwell and Vera Farminga, who are expecting their second child.  This does not bode well with their first child, Joshua, (Jacob Kogan) a sociopath child prodigy who wants his parents to love him exclusively. The film was produced through ATO Pictures and was picked up at Sundance by Fox Searchlight.

The film is disturbing, intense and exquisitely shot by Gaspar Noé’s regular cinematographer Benoît Debie.  I met with Ratliff in New York to talk about his transition from documentary to narrative.

Benjamin Crossley-Marra: How did you get into film?
George Ratliff:  I don’t really know (laughs).  I grew up in a small Texas town that could hardly be considered an “artistic community,” none of my family and friends really knew anything about it.  But I went to college at UT Austin, I was planning to be a writer but I think there was this really pragmatic view that people really didn’t read anymore and I always thought of things visually and then realized that I had a knack for visual storytelling.  I think that may have come from my father, who’s a very strange guy, he would only watch a handful of movies over and over again.  He would watch Sergeant York, Hopscotch and Stagecoach so I saw those movies about fifty times each.  I think that after all those repeated viewings the film’s aesthetics (like the framing and editing) became more apparent.  That really helped me learn how scenes are put together.

BCM: How do you feel about moving from the documentary to the narrative feature?
GR: I always wanted to do narrative, but my big worry was working with actors.  So one of the things I did in New York was I secretly started acting and I took acting classes at HB studios.  So when it did came time to work with actors I was very comfortable, I knew what to expect and where they were coming from.  I could also tell what was bullshit and what was real, so I was really able to communicate with them. 

BCM: How did Joshua come about?
GR: Joshua was 100% David Gilbert’s idea, it’s all his fault.  I actually didn’t want to do it at all because I just started having kids, so I really didn’t want anything to do with demonic children.  But since I didn’t feel it, we really rehashed things out tone-wise until I felt we had something that we were both proud of. 

BCM: Could you talk about the casting process?  Why Sam Rockwell, Vera Farminga, and Jacob Kogan?
GR: We pictured Sam in this part from the very beginning; he’s a perfect fit for the character.  I’m a big fan of Sam’s and I knew him socially being in New York.  I think as an actor Sam is impossible not to like, he’s just so ingratiating.  Also as an actor he can’t do anything he doesn’t believe 100%.  I thought Joshua should be steeped in reality all the way, so this worked out well.  It was kind of weird to sell this project to Sam and Vera because they both wanted to work with each other.  Both of them were kind of on the fence about the project before they realized they could work together.  Then the lynchpin was the character Joshua and it’s not like we had a huge pool of kids to choose from.  But I knew a guy who created the show Wondershowzen for MTV2 and he worked with just about every kid in the five boroughs.  He told me about Jacob, that he was a real talent.  Not only is he a great actor, he’s really smart and Joshua is supposed to be a prodigy and Jacob was the only one who was able to approach it. 

BCM: How was it working with a child actor?
GR: Well the problem is that you forget he’s a kid.  He was ten when we filmed this, so it was (for the most) part fine.  He’s really smart and has really good instincts but he's still a kid, so there was a degree of manipulation involved.  It’s funny I had a different working relationship with every actor on the set.  With Jacob I had to use very subtle manipulation to keep him focused.

BCM: Joshua was shot in a very interesting style, could you discuss the cinematography a little bit?
GR: Yeah I picked Benoît Debie, I loved his work with Gaspar Noé and a certain film he shot called Calvaire, where he employed a bleach bypass.  You know the real influential movies for Joshua were With a Friend like Harry, Read my Lips and Caché.  Those films, I think, are very scary thrillers steeped in reality and cold naturalism.  American movies when they try to give you “cold” just pump blue in everywhere.  I really liked what Benoît did with the bleach bypass and you might not have noticed but there’s an evolution that takes place within the film.  It starts with a cold, solid, color palette, lot’s of handheld and long lenses but as  the movie progresses the lenses get wider, the angles become lower, the camera movement becomes non-existent and the color highly contrasted. Joshua takes over.  We also employed a bleach bypass that gradually increased as the film progressed.  If you compare the beginning frame to the end frame, you’d think they were different movies. 

BCM: Did you always want to shoot this on film, or were you open to shooting on HDDV?
GR: There certainly was a lot of talk about shooting on digital, but I always fought for film.  I felt that the grain was very important for the look and I personally don’t like black on anything but film.  I think the grain really adds character, I feel like it’s frightening.  Every frame of the film is different because it’s organic, the grain breaths life into the frame.  But you know I fought to shoot Hell House on film too.

BCM: Do you think you’ll ever work with digital?
GR:  I think if it’s appropriate I’d be totally down with it, but I think for the stuff I’ve done film was the correct medium. 

BCM: How did the financing come together for Joshua?
GR: ATO pictures produced it and it was the first time we’ve worked together so they didn’t know me and I didn’t have final cut.  But they took a big chance on the project so that was great. I was actually scared to death, but I have to say I think I was really, really lucky because they have the same taste I do, plus they liked Sam and Vera.  I don’t regret anything in the film, the cut you saw was the cut I wanted.  I don’t know how it happened but I was very lucky.

BCM: How was it shooting in New York?
GR: Well from a director’s standpoint it was great.  I’m not so sure from a producing standpoint it was the easiest project to pull off.  But when we shot in Central Park everyone was really helpful and the shots came off really well.  I mean the permits were hard to get, but I’ll always make films in New York.  It’s great to go home after the shoot too (laughs).

BCM: As someone who’s made both documentaries and narratives, why do you think documentaries have so popular?
GR: Well first of all it’s very practical as a filmmaker to make documentaries.  I made a short version of Hell House and got the financing right away.  Especially with digital technology they’re very easy to compile and produce.  But second, many more people are into documentaries now.  They go to the theater to see them, that’s something new.

BCM: What are some projects you’ve got coming up?
GR: I’ve always been in love with this Don Delillo book called End Zone, it’s his second novel.  It’s a crazy football satire set in west Texas, it’s very funny and it’s very much about war, it’s apocalyptic and it’s just great.  I did an adaptation with David Gilbert the same guy I wrote Joshua with.  The same company that made Joshua is interested in making this, but we’re still in the early stages.

Fox Searchlight Pictures releases Joshua in theatres on July 6th.